HomeMy WebLinkAboutNotes from Special Event Organizer Presentation 6-22-21
Notes from presentation to Special Event Organizers on 6-22-21
Attendees: 10 (to start with; it grew from there)
Tony Prater
Christmas In the Nighttime Sky
Ryan Bowman
Cae O’Dell (I think) came in – he mentioned Oktoberfest
Crazy Days
Mitch Humble: Talk about special event ordinance; talk about some changes; share some of that info;
get some input on the changes; no final recommendation yet, still working through the changes, what
works for staff, council, and for you.
We’ve had an internal city employee committee working on this for several months; group made of
from various departments. Intent is to show that special events touch a lot of folks at the city. Help
with the 3 topics: safety, community, city investment. We understand these events are good for the
community. Council firmly believes they’re good for community. Try to figure out how to do that in a
safe way, and part of presentation show time and energy and resources that the city puts into special
events.
Population history; as the city continues to grow at 2% clip the population every year. Also aware that
in Twin we generally serve 100K people per day. We track that by trips on roadways, Blue Lakes and
Washington. Can see projection and how grown since 1980. Special event codes have remained largely
unchanged through this large growth that we’ve had in last 30 years.
Data shows story of what kind of special events we have and what kind of facilities; the input we want
from you as stakeholders is we realize that the process is often difficult; same for city staff, too. Goes
through many different departments. Often starts at P&R as park reservation, then transition to other
agencies and end up with the police dept. Ended up with Sgt Howe who is in charge of Traffic Team to
make sure we’re compliant.
50 in a city park or trail. 44 street closure – anywhere from simple closure to main closure. Alcohol sold
also requires sheriff dept or TFPD security. Amplified sound is a trigger. Concert in the bandshell,
something on Main St. 23 events had extra police security – not to be confused with parade traffic
security – just police security. Clarification: alcohol sold is just if event is providing, not like Koto serving
alcohol outside.
Attendance; private property 8 – why you might ask? Could have other triggers: amplified sound, street
closures, mall parking lot
Here are some changes we’re looking at:
1. Time constriction; unless otherwise approved
2. Raising liability insurance from $500K to $1 million
3. Ensure commercial vendors follow City Code Title 3, Ch 18 – Commercial Vending
A lot of bigger events already doing this; this is to make code same across the board
What is a commercial vendor? What about grandma Jo selling doilies? Yes, they are commercial vendor
Mitch: We recently updated Title 3, Ch 18 – and anyone selling product on public property must follow
Title 3, Ch 18. It’s up to event: Event can be responsible or can make vendors get the license
individually. Gives event holders the flexibility. If they take responsibility, don’t have to have copies of
all their licenses; but event holder should make sure rules are being followed.
Wendy: The way it’s written; if you as the event holder have confidence in your vendors, you can take
that on. But if you don’t want to police it and don’t want to take that on, you can tell them to go get a
license.
Confusion: how do we know what the code is? Chief: It’s on our website.
Chief: A lot of the food vendors have to adhere to fire code, too; I know it becomes complicated for
you, the event organizers, but it does get complicated for us, too, for all the departments it has to pass
through: City manager, Fire marshall, parks, Streets, and then Police Dept. Trying to streamline so this is
easier for all of you and for us, too. When you are checking boxes, we will be checking boxes, too.
We’ve had events coming up in 24 hours and maybe street dept and Wendy and Ryan are all on the
phone trying to make sure everyone is where they need to be; Tim’s trying to make sure vendors are
doing what they need to do.
Is this the only thing we’re changing in Title 3? Chief: No, and this is just guidance for City Council, that’s
why we’re here. Does someone blocking off street for block party need same scrutiny for big events;
right now, by statue, everyone is treated the same; that’s something to look at.
The man doing church at the City parks; only 42-50 people; amplified sound is the one trigger; which
could be different than a large event; mentioned birthday party with a boombox trigging a special event
permit. Chief mentions it’s a recurring event of 42-50 people; vs. Wester Days with thousands of
people; wide range
Western Days: Asking about fees; vendor permit; is there a fee for them to do it? Yes, the fee is $100.
Clarified: the event does not have to apply for, or pay for, a commercial vending license; but they have
to answer some questions on the application.
What happens if vendor doesn’t follow rules? Chief: Could be shut down (extreme); could be difficult to
get permit next year; you broke rules last year, why give permit this year? I think this Council and City;
we want the events to happen, we want to encourage them, we understand significance of these events
to this community; the community aspect of your events; but if we have an event where it seems like 2
years in a row they just can’t follow the rules, would not be surprised by Council wanting to discuss and
potentially deny the request.
Tiered Classification
The idea we want to explore with you; right now an event is an event. If you trigger you go through the
whole process
Toyed with the idea of having different tiers; some might mean you have a different fee attached,
different level of scrutiny; some of the things we’re thinking about. Might make it easier for us to
manager; easier for some of these events to get through the process more smoothly.
Chief: When we brought this up to City council 6-8 weeks ago, we initially asked if we should take
amplified sound out of tier 1; Council was adamant about leaving that in; if any amplified sound, should
be a special event permit.
Church: Unfortunate part is; most people don’t know they need to follow this; not that they go out of
their way not to follow. Chief: What triggers that is someone starts at the Parks Reservation; and the
questions for parks would potentially trigger the Special Event application based on certain criteria. If
you have a trigger on the parks application.
The work we have seen recently is special event applications being approved but park reservations not
approved; can cause a problem if police chief says you’re good to go but parks director says you can’t
have the event downtown, it’s reserved elsewhere. We’re trying to streamline so we don’t miss things
like that.
O’Duncans: I like the tiered; but I question tier 2 for me; sell alcohol under catering permit, don’t have a
beer garden; but have alcohol sales; feel we fall in between tier 2 and tier 3; another woman said a lot of
people downtown fall into that category; Oktoberfest is the only; Tim pointed out that one of the trigger
puts you in Tier 3; (added clarification). Chief: pointed out it’s the street closure (collector or arterial).
Ryan: On the alcohol, heads up for downtown businesses; site plan does not include sidewalks so
technically should require a catering permit; some events occurring without a catering permit; need a
separate one, even if outside your business, just outside your business – if it’s outside your site plan on
file with the ISP. That’s why alcohol triggers that; most events happen and they’re selling alcohol
outside the business, outside their designated area. Each business does not need a catering permit; the
event can get it? I don’t think that’s correct???
Should event coordinator be asking people to see their catering permit? Ryan: If you want to take
responsibility it might be better for you to do that. City can impose $500 fine for each violation of
special event ordinance; never seen that but it’s a possibility. Chief: Know your site plan. O’Duncan’s
allows picnic tables so those are okay. Can’t speak to Koto or others. Has to meet requirements they
submitted to the ISP.
Approval process might be different, too, based on tiers; code says police chief can approve; city council
wants to approve them, too; We’re talking about asking Council to maybe have the tier 1 events not go
through Council, not have to get onto the agenda. We are going to ask Council if they still want to see
those. Tier 2 and tier 3, Council is still going to want to see those. Stakeholders: What do you think
about that? They agree that maybe tier 1 doesn’t go to Council
Mitch: Back in 2008, Council asked for it to come to Council, primarily for advertising of the event; if it
showed up at a Council meeting and sparked discussion; help event be more successful. Is there value in
having an item on the Council agenda and being discussed on a Council agenda? Several people shook
their heads no. Wendy: When it’s on the consent calendar, there’s rarely discussion. (Someone
brought up that they’re not even sure when it’s approved) Another person says it shows up on agenda
and gets out to KEZJ before they want it to get out. Sometimes things into the paper because it’s on the
agenda.
Annual investment:
Mitch: What we’re trying to show here, will get to some harder conversations later (maybe not), City
puts a bunch of resources into these efforts that maybe you’ve never thought to count up.
These numbers on the table; city staff application review; typical year. Primarily based on 2019. Takes
all the various staff people looking at these applications; how much time they spend and converting to
dollars. About $14,000 per year to review / check these applications. Just as a note: at the bottom; we
collect $1,600 in application fees in a year. Of our $14,000 review cost only about $1,600 is recovered.
Some events do one application, one application fee; multiple events; you pay 1 fee, not 8 fees. That’s
why the $1,600 is kind of low. And it’s only $25, not an expensive year. We have people like a traffic sgt
or parks director spending a bunch of time, how it gets high.
Traffic Control: Unreimbursed traffic control – city staff putting up signs, standing at intersections. We
think it’s a really low estimate. Chief: Western Days, TFPD pays for traffic control; we contracted with
Road Work Ahead, they help with traffic design to make sure compliant with MUTCD standards. As
example, the bill for Western Days is $15,000, we just paid this week. Now, a standard parade
downtown, could be around $5,000 like St. Patrick’s Day. The schools were done without overtime; the
graduation parades were $750 to $950 each. Chief: The big parades; St. Patrick’s, Christmas Parade
downtown, Western Days; we know they’ll happen every year; it’s easy for us to put together.
Chief: We’ve been advised we need to start following the federal standards for MUTCD – lowes our
liability to make sure we have our streets properly marked for closing roadways for those parades. The
nice thing, we know for the parades we just mentioned, we know the parade route; we don’t have to
change anything next year. We have those plans in place; especially downtown, we can use city staff,
our street dept, Mark and his team, to provide signage, to help offset that cost.
O’Duncan’s: Does it help when we say it starts at this road, ends at this road? Chief: Yes, same for both
St Patrick’s and Christmas parade; same route; simple thing for us and street dept.
Wendy; To add onto that, the conversations that we were having; we have a pre-designated route; if
you want a different route, some of those expenses to do outside a pre-determined route might fall
onto the event organizer. That’s what we intended as part of this street closure / parade route piece.
Ryan: One thing we found was that street dept does not have adequate signage yet; with these
parades, because you have to have each intersection blocked, and a pre-warning sign for each
intersection, and detours; and using state highways; creates issues. We still have to contract outside the
City, that’s why the $5,000 cost is there. When we close streets we have to do it properly. That’s why
estimate for $31,010 is low; if one parade is $15,000, then we’ve got fireworks, and then the downtown
parades, Christmas in the Nighttime Sky; those were included in that $31,010, but we know some of
those are low, we haven’t gone through the MUTCD. Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. We
have to follow these standards.
Chief: When we talk about police security; the way we used to provide security to evens and the
reasoning is a lot different than it used to be. WE still live in a wonderful city, probably won’t have
people come to events with evil on their mind, but don’t want to underestimate and turn a blind eye.
Have been providing extra security over the past 5 years. Used to be traffic control, shaking hands,
kissing babies; now we are concerned about people driving car into event; if it happens in other parts of
the world, we think about it for these events.
O’Duncan’s – if I pay $700, you’re providing more security? Chief: yes, that’s just for beer gardens;
we’re providing security for perimeter, have an evacuation plan in place; (so we don’t charge for this?)
The Christmas parade is a great event, but my job as a police chief is to make sure someone who gets
into. That’s the unreimbursed security $14,457?
Do some events not pay security? We charge for Alcohol Security; Crazy Days asked if they pay $700?
Chief: The $14,457 covers the extra security.
Mitch: Had a conversation with Council a couple months ago, showed them some of this information;
shows the $66K of city resources not being covered. Shocking for us, and shocking for council. Probably
have a conversation about trying to recover some of that; not all of it; council finds value in these
events; they’re part of the fabric of our community (Western Days argued it brings income into the
community). We have $66K in taxpayer money that’s going to a different kind of a cost; and there’s an
opportunity cost; when street guy is watching an intersection he can’t be out fixing a pothole. We’re
probably going to get into a conversation about fees; $25 probably not appropriate; but recovering $66K
is probably not appropriate other.
Crazy Days asked if our departments budget for community events; Mitch said no, just PD budgets OT
for special events, but other departments its not budgeted. Ryan: The OT budget hasn’t been changed
in 10-15 years; the OT rate and # of events have increased.
Crazy Days: We redid downtown so we could do more festivals; from the standpoint of someone
putting on an event, it’s more difficult every year; and I get nervous for the people who want to do new
events; the process can be overwhelming and deters people before they even start. Why did we spend
millions to make our streets like this downtown to throw events but we’re making it more difficult? Can
we streamline? I feel like the City should absorb these costs. For Crazy Days and Oktoberfest it came
out my pockets to make the event happen.
O’Duncans: Christmas Day, Superbowl; do you overstaff the police department to make sure there are
extra people? Like when there will be a lot of drinking? To make sure roads are safe? That seems like a
natural for police security – community thing of why we pay our taxpayer dollars; when there are bigger
things, there are extra police on duty; having those numbers in the total (security and traffic control?)
not appropriate. Chief: I don’t disagree with that statement; it’s a fair statement; it’s the city council’s
decision to make that direction to me, the police chief. A portion of our OT budget is dedicated to a few
special events; like the ones that are ongoing for several years or decades. Years ago when they set the
budget (15 years ago?) and council set the budget; they said we should absorb some of these costs. But
now when you look at MUTCD requirements, and what the City pays (with your tax dollars) for Road
Work head bills. Need to have the discussion so it shows all sides of the apple so when council makes
the decision its with all the information and data.
Crazy Days: Is there a plan for City to purchase the correct signage for these events? Yes, our Street
Dept is planning to gear up for our Main St. Western Days: do we use RWA because they have the
equipment or the knowledge? Mitch: Both; they have the knowledge, but we have that too; but they
have the equipment to set up the parade, and the staff to come in. Western Days: you can buy that
equipment. Mitch: One problem with Western Days; storage space; we’re never going to use that
except for one time year. But for a Main Street parade, we can use the equipment multiple times.
Crazy Days: Can you have the plan so we know what we need to do? Mitch: Yes, that’s what Wendy
brought up; we give you the plan; maybe we give you the equipment; and you set it up. The one
exception is Western Days. Ryan: Cost for Western Days materials is about $70,000 to get the
equipment, then we have to store it. Mitch: The cost to invest in just a few new materials.
Oktoberfest: We do a lot of events; traffic control; one thing we see here more than anywhere else is
the cost of police; one thing I’d like to request, take a look at, for the cost of one police officer I can hire
4-5 private security who have access to specific training; we require ERP points, we require plans. $60 /
hour for police is excessive. Give us an opportunity to utilize private security; that type should have to
go through some qualification process but give us an opportunity. RWA is reasonably priced, we want to
shut down Shoshone and do it correctly.
Crazy Days: If you let private security it should reduce your cost, too. That’s one of the biggest costs is
the police security. I get why we have to have it, but if we can go private and can get 4 to 2; if you can
approve it, not just get someone hanging out at the mall; but if you approve the security agency that we
use, it alleviates costs for police and for the event.
Chief: That’s something to discuss with Council; right now the code says it needs to be police;
Ryan: The reason for police security; when you hire private security, they have an inherrant benefit if
they don’t report crimes or watch for overconsumption, illegal alcohol sales. If you hire them and they
start reporting, that’s why we require police security with county or TFPD. Any law enforcement agency
with jurisdiction; could go with state police. Main reason is for the safety of the event and make sure
that the alcohol sales are legal. Oktoberfest argued: You just need 2 officers. Ryan: With 2 beer
gardens, that’s not safe. We do try to keep is as minimal as we can. If beer gardens were next to each
other that would work.
Oktoberfest: We do events in other places; the county sheriff’s don’t require what we do. As event, I
want my event to be safe; I will be more aggressive. Don’t want to risk O’duncan’s beer license. We
booked 56 events this year in the state, the city’s is the highest requirements out of all of them. We
want something more fair; make the guys go through a certification process. Then open to the free
market to minimize the city’s cost but provide business to the private security businesses. Ryan pointed
out that the $14,457 doesn’t include the beer garden costs.
Oktoberfest: There was a big jump in the security cost this year. We didn’t have a traffic control plan,
so thank you for taking care of that for us; the total cost of the event was $18,000 ; jumped almost
$5,000 – same area – not asking to sacrifice safety, just asking for an alternative where I can have the
oversight; I still have sheriffs at all my events, not as many as you ask me to (for events elsewhere; and
they are larger events). I understand where you’re coming from, just asking you to consider it.
Someone asked about sharing with council the amount of the reimbursed costs: Mitch: Yes, we can
share that with Council.
Church: Unreimbursed $66K – event like Western Days, if they bring in a million dollars, the tax that
goes to the City. Doesn’t that cover it? Western Days said 30,000 people and $1.5 million in revenue.
They’re talking about sales tax; and the City gets their portion. Mitch: What’s interesting about that;
the way the state sales tax system is set up, doesn’t matter where it happens; City gets the total share of
what’s collected statewide; sale that happens at Western Days doesn’t necessarily all come to the City).
(What was the tax that Western Days brought up? Room tax? Mitch: that does not come to the City)
Christmas in the nighttime sky: If most of this is from 2019; did the City operate at a surplus or deficit
that year? Mitch: Surplus most years, i.e., the building department revenue is higher than budgeted,
that goes to surplus. Again: We’re not trying to recover $66K, we have skin in this, too, we need to do a
little bit more, but not $66K.
Mitch: We already talked about MUTCD; we do have standards; this is the big reason for some of those
costs; its because it’s a federal regulations, and honestly, remember the slide of population growth; for
the last year or so we’re making an effort to ensure compliance.
Last slide: We’ve already talked about a lot of this. I don’t know what we’re going to go back to with
fees / rates. $25 is not appropriate. We should try to recover some of that review cost. We’re not
recovering $66K. Maybe the 3 different tiers is a way to do that; smaller fees for smaller events, fees go
up with the tier – someone asked what other cities charge
Mitch: I’m thinking a couple hundred dollars, maybe. I think that’s where we’re headed
Mitch: We’re trying to make this a more streamlined process. Laserfiche will be part of that. Fill it out
online. Probably do some internal changes; right now it all goes to police dept; might change so a sgt is
not shepherding it.
Crazy Days: It would be great if two people throwing an event everyone gets the same info. My
confusion; City council approved event; but the Parks & Rec said I never filled out my app, I thought I
was done. But if I got everything all at once.
Mitch: We’re going to work on that
Wendy: We did a new application process that we rolled out in 2020; this has been our first year that
we tested out; after you went through Crazy Days I went through the two applications and asked what
can it take to merge these? (special event and the park reservation) A lot of the questions are the
same; same kind of info; the way to streamline is to pull together; and we recognize that “the city” in
most minds is one organization; can be frustrating; we need to fix that; we’re very aware of the process
review as well. That could be the next conversation and we might circle back with you for feedback for a
discussion on that, too.
Tony Prater: it is confusing what events have to go through parks and which event don’t. For a block
party, do we go through parks? That’s the question no one knows. Craig: Start with a question: do you
need to reserve a park? No, move onto special event.
Crazy days: 3 downtown people did 3 events in a few months and everyone was told something
different. Would like to have it black and white. Mitch: We need to do better at our internal process.
Christmas in nighttime sky: Involves TFPD and County sheriff’s office and ISP. Do we have to meet with
them? Chief: No, they come in because we ask them to.
Oktoberfest: As city starts getting larger, we have a meeting with department employees, get together,
have a meeting, they give us homework, Boise does every Wednesday or every other Wednesday;
present to everyone at once; if large enough (like potato drop) it took a break-off special team
(federal/state/county/city).
O’Duncan’s: tedious part of the process; notification for each business; any kind of email distribution if
you’re a business on the parade route; I’ll pay money for you to send out the email. It takes so much
time. Chief: I wouldn’t take that on; keyholders don’t keep it up to date.
Tim: A coupe fire rules I want you to be aware of; I’ve talked to some of you already. Mobile food
vendors; new code in the fire code, across state of Idaho, across the United States; they have to comply
with fire code. I’ll leave this up here, can make more copies. Fire extinguishers, etc. Fire departments
in southern Idaho got together, said no reason for vendors to go to each city and get a fire inspection. If
they get a sticker then the other cities recognize that they are in compliance. Need to have the sticker
on the vehicle. Mobile food vendors specifically.
Tim: Tents: When you have tents in a row without a 12’ separation, it’s one tent. I just want to make
sure they’re safe.
Crazy days: Heard rumor you’re going to charge electricity in downtown commons?
Wendy: commons is similar to city park (where we charge for electricity). Because it’s a fee and a new
area we could not transfer that fee structure to downtown; and it’s still owned by URA, City doesn’t
have ownership over it yet; we talked about putting it in so fee is consistent; or maybe we do away with
all of them; or they’re the same.